tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post2098326327585670672..comments2023-11-07T06:20:12.181-08:00Comments on Tolkien: Medieval and Modern: On Creation and Destruction"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"http://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-70027245198140183162017-05-15T20:19:30.950-07:002017-05-15T20:19:30.950-07:00The role of Tolkien’s spiders as devourers whose s...The role of Tolkien’s spiders as devourers whose sole purpose is to consume light and goodness- with passages like the one you cite regarding their “creative” aspect being somewhat glossed over- is interesting to me given that spiders are, of course, creators. In fact, spider webs are incredibly symmetric and ordered structures, as opposed to Ungoliant and co.’s insatiable appetite for destruction and their tendency to cause chaos. I’ve always pictured Vaire the weaver as spider-like, but spiders seem to have only negative connotations for Tolkien himself. <br /><br />I think you’re on to something with Ungoliant being a creator of sorts: she really does seem more like a positive evil rather than an absence of good. Her ominous origins and complete antagonism to all creation contribute to this: as a force from outside the world (“some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda”) and active hatred for all that is good (“she hungered for light and hated it’) portrays her as an enemy force encroaching on creation rather than one corrupted within it, as Melkor and all his monsters are. Melkor’s inability to control her is one of her more terrifying features, too, and her inhuman hunger is so deeply alien compared to Melkor’s somewhat more understandable motivations of jealousy and pride. She is a different kind of evil entirely, one that is outside reason and bigger than human comprehension.<br /><br />H. Bell<br />"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-34958782685397293202017-05-03T08:55:37.023-07:002017-05-03T08:55:37.023-07:00I would argue that Ungoliant's creation of &qu...I would argue that Ungoliant's creation of "dark nets of strangling gloom" is not an act of creation, but rather of perversion, just as Melkor's was. <br /><br />First, to attempt to define transformation's evils. What you calll "transformation", I think Tolkien views as perversion. As discussed in class, it is not simply destruction that is evil, but interference in to other creations. As Eli raised in class, if Iluvatar had created a realm of fire and ash and volcanos, that would be "good" and perverting that into flowers and beauty is "evil" because it is an interference in another creation. Specifically, however, it is a perversion of the creation of Iluvatar.<br /><br />Ungoliant is consequently perverting Iluvatar's creation, sort of by definition. The creation of "dark nets of strangling gloom" comes out out of light--Iluvatar's creation, in the trees, by way of the Valar acting in accordance with his will/ideas of "good". As such, the creation is really a transformation of light into darkness. This in and of itself is not "evil", but it is by corrupting something already present, something in concordance with Iluvatar's creation and definition of "good", that makes the transformation evil. <br /><br />As such, I disagree with your claim that Ungoliant's "creation" is considered evil, and that this disrupts the schema of "creation = good, destruction and perversion = bad". I think the actions of Ungoliant align pretty precisely.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14771087631776074296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-9084435492079832452017-04-29T12:33:52.849-07:002017-04-29T12:33:52.849-07:00I would have liked to hear more about Ungoliant! I...I would have liked to hear more about Ungoliant! Is the negation of Light a creative act? It is the great question of whether Evil exists. Augustine would say, no, Evil is an absence of Good, and yet, you are right that Tolkien's description of Ungoliant's Unlight seems to involve a making. Perhaps Flieger would be of help here, too. RLFB"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.com