tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post339233579056882001..comments2023-11-07T06:20:12.181-08:00Comments on Tolkien: Medieval and Modern: Relative realities, framing, and religion"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"http://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-17908791821322412202014-05-01T06:55:40.940-07:002014-05-01T06:55:40.940-07:00I think you underestimate the degree to which a cl...I think you underestimate the degree to which a classical Biblical hermeneutic, especially the Catholic understanding that Tolkien brings to the test, can accommodate seeming contradictions in the text. Put briefly, I'm not sure that Tolkien would recognize the distinctions between Job and Genesis as contradictions, perhaps "elaborations" would be a better word. So, I think you're very much correct that the Ainulindale offers up the elves view of creation, accounting for the differences, but wrong to suggest that by this Tolkien understands their to be a bias operative in his account (or the one in Genesis) which gives us an imperfect view of creation. The Ainulindale and Genesis are both *true*, and, in so far as they are true, they are in agreement with each other. However, this does not mean that they are factually true (I'm avoiding the use of the term "literally" here, as the literal sense in the classic understanding, which Tolkien gives every indication of accepting, is not the same as the one most commonly encountered today). <br /><br />I think a useful way to think about this might be in the same terms as Plato's creation account in the Timaeus. Despite it's obvious differences from the account in Genesis, theologians regularly pointed to the Timaeus as true and even referred to Plato as a sort of proto-Christian. The Ainulindale is even closer to the Christian creation story (indeed, I can easily imagine a 12th century poet writing about creation in very similar terms), and I think Tolkien would say express the same fundamental truths. As a sidenote: it's worth mentioning that Christian theology often understood music to be at the basis of language (Thomas Aquinas famously argues this), I would be surprised if Tolkien were unaware of this and if it did not inform his work. dyingsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087241514388178221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-78128531683047560672014-04-30T18:40:32.893-07:002014-04-30T18:40:32.893-07:00
‘Therefore, the Ainulindale is simply the Elves’ ...<br />‘Therefore, the Ainulindale is simply the Elves’ interpretation of the true act of Creation, of which the Bible is another interpretation—the interpretation, perhaps, of Men.’ <br /><br />I like this phrasing. At first, I had some trouble wrapping my head around the fact that this creation myth is so explicitly a Christian creation myth. Tolkien makes such a big to-do in all of his letters and supporting material that Arda, with its Elvish languages and histories, is NOT a Christian world, which in my mind meant it should be impossible to draw explicit parallels between his secondary reality and our primary one. Therefore, his creation myth seems (or it did in my indignant first impression) to be in complete violation of these proud and meticulous and earnest statements. <br /><br />However, I think your interpretation sums his project up nicely: the idea that he offered the Ainulindale (with its frame) as an alternate interpretation of the act of creation, in keeping with the alternate Judeo-Christian versions of creation, is a very beautiful and subtle way of connecting his secondary reality to our primary one. There is no assumption that the creation story will or must end in modern religious practices, by that I mean that his history is not progressive, it does not need to end with Christianity or with the religion of the Numenoreans, but this event involving a creator and angel like creatures has passed down through the ages, changed and refracted like one of Tolkien’s languages. <br />-mcs"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-29737252284098117272014-04-30T08:09:04.245-07:002014-04-30T08:09:04.245-07:00It was Christopher Tolkien who took out the frame ...It was Christopher Tolkien who took out the frame when he published the <i>Ainulindalë</i> in <i>The Simarillion</i>. His father's manuscripts always seem to have included a frame. RLFB"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.com