tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post5240657905745640815..comments2023-11-07T06:20:12.181-08:00Comments on Tolkien: Medieval and Modern: Not-So-Gaping Plot Hole"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"http://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-46340912366534822392011-06-04T16:20:08.692-07:002011-06-04T16:20:08.692-07:00In one of my blog posts I had suggested something ...In one of my blog posts I had suggested something very similar to what Michaela says here; that Sauron was so utterly convinced that others would want to use the ring for the same purposes as himself i.e. domination that he could not conceive of anyone destroying it. <br />However, I would like to pose a question from within Middle Earth's own history. Was Sauron aware that Isildur had once been very close to destroying the ring? If he was aware of this then perhaps he had to have been open to the possibility that the ring being destroyed was a plausible possibility. Furthermore, Elrond who counseled Isildur to destroy the ring is still alive in this age and would doubtless be urging the same counsel as before. The return of Isildur's heir would also suggest that this heir would be striving to correct the past wrongs of his ancestor. Is Sauron's crime 'ignorance' not only in a Boethian sense but in a far more simple sense? Was the Dark Lord simply not up to date with Middle Earth's history?<br /><br />R Rao"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-25395040903591746012011-06-03T20:51:32.920-07:002011-06-03T20:51:32.920-07:00I actually had the same thought! While initially m...I actually had the same thought! While initially my response was to say something along the lines of “well, you might lock you doors at night, but you don’t guard your own kitchen,” I was eventually left dissatisfied with that answer, partially because of what Professor Fulton-Brown pointed out, that Sauron certainly should have doubled up his security after ‘spies’ were found in his territory, but also because Sauron seemed like the kind of fellow who would in fact guard his own kitchen. The (relatively unsatisfying answer) that I eventually had to settle on was that I imagined that the Eye was in fact usually guarding it. At the time that Sam and Frodo entered, the captains of the West were at the Black Gates making exactly the distraction that was miraculously needed (the timing of this episode was actually more of a problem for me in terms of believability). Basically, I have an inclination that Sauron himself was usually keeping an eye on the Cracks of Doom and incidentally wasn’t at that point, but your interpretation is entirely more satisfying.<br /><br />E. Moore"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-17466398320803579262011-05-09T10:19:46.560-07:002011-05-09T10:19:46.560-07:00Had Sauron possessed any knowledge of the plans of...Had Sauron possessed any knowledge of the plans of the Fellowship, then he probably would have taken more protective measures. Mordor itself was already quite heavily defended, at least from armies, with troops and by geography. The Black Gate was a massive fortress as was Minas Morgul being the home of the Nazgul Lord, which were the two primary points of entry into Mordor. The land itself was barren, dessert-like and subject to temperature extremes. I am certain that a couple of spies infiltrating hear and there was hardly considered a great threat, since they would likely be discovered/captured before long (as Frodo was). Furthermore, Sauron being ever in the quest for more power, could not conceive of anyone wanting to destroy the Ring of ultimate power—hide it perhaps, but not destroy it.<br /><br />We know that Gandalf, Galadriel, and their ilk would have tried to use the ring to impose goodness if they took it. Aragron, Boromir, and such likely would have become tyrants like Ar-Pharazon. We don’t really know what Frodo’s temptation was. He seems tempted to take the ring to Sauron ,or simply to keep in at the end, but we don’t know what he was inclined to do with it knowing the power that it has. What does this say about him?<br /><br />-Jason A Banks"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-55534192509653874972011-05-08T09:41:56.582-07:002011-05-08T09:41:56.582-07:00It honestly never struck me as odd that the Sammat...It honestly never struck me as odd that the Sammath Naur was unguarded, but now that I'm thinking about it, it does seem rather strange and discordant, at least at first. But you're right, and I think that your exploration of these themes is spot-on.<br /><br />It's an oversight, and that oversight exposes Sauron's great failing and the one which ultimately leads him to his doom: his inability to see, in all his desperate desire for more power, more dominion over the wills of others, that perhaps his enemies are working toward a different goal. He believes that his enemies all have as their ultimate end the desire to contest him or even to supplant him by using his own power, the Ring; this is why he is so desperate to get it back, I think. He cannot even imagine that they would try to destroy it, and this, I think, is at the core of the conflict and at the core of Sauron's eventual defeat and downfall as well. -MJMichaelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04544329665374527300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-11571155749203095572011-05-04T19:24:30.966-07:002011-05-04T19:24:30.966-07:00I have to admit that it never occurred to me to wo...I have to admit that it never occurred to me to wonder why Sauron left the Sammath Naur itself unguarded, but now that you mention it, it does seem odd. My sense had always been that he considered Mordor as a whole impenetrable, but after receiving Frodo's mithril coat from Minas Morgul, you'd think he would be more worried about what happened to the spy. Perhaps he was not worried because he had no evidence that that spy had been carrying anything other than what was taken off him. It is hard to know how to think about the extent of Sauron's knowledge at any given point: how far could the Eye see? You've got me wondering!<br /><br />RLFB"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.com