tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post5831165381301690839..comments2023-11-07T06:20:12.181-08:00Comments on Tolkien: Medieval and Modern: Monsters as Extensions of their Creators"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"http://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-11975933737814406862017-05-23T20:30:39.295-07:002017-05-23T20:30:39.295-07:00You say that monsters "do not choose to embra...You say that monsters "do not choose to embrace evil as their creators do," but I think it's up for debate to what extent even Melkor could be said to have free will. Tolkien states that within Illuvatar's creation "Free Will is derivative, and is only operative within provided circumstances. . ." and hence "it is 'feigned' . . . that He gave special 'sub-creative' powers to certain of His highest created beings" (Tolkien Letter 153). I took this passage to mean that even though the Valar have great subcreative power, it is still only subcreation - they are still subject to the will of Illuvatar, even Melkor who is second only to Illuvatar in power and rebelled against his will. If we are to accept that free will in Arda is largely an illusion and all actions inevitably further the Will of Illuvatar for His creation, then this line between monsters and villains becomes incredibly blurry. The best way I think of to get out of this conundrum is to say that even though Melkor's actions will inevitably serve Illuvatar's will, he still chose his evil intentions.<br /><br />To move beyond slippery concepts of free will though, I think we can make a distinction between villains and monsters by analyzing the case of Melkor and Orcs more closely. Tolkien says that he "represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them." (Tolkien Letter 153) If we are to say that Orcs are monsters, we can then say that monsters are beings whose evil actions are the result of external corruption, whereas villains are the corrupters, those who "chose" (insofar as it is possible for any subcreator to choose) the path of evil and actively lead or force other beings to serve their purposes. The only difference I would say this framework has from yours is that this doesn't make monsters inherently evil (as I don't believe that Tolkien believes inherent evil to exist within his universe). The Orcs aren't evil any moreso than any other creation of Illuvatar's, they are simply corrupted creations who are being used as tools by Melkor. As a result I don't think that their nature is an evil one, as otherwise they wouldn't have had to be corrupted in the first place.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17565149335882292953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5746173806126403959.post-17494108967356860182017-05-14T13:20:40.968-07:002017-05-14T13:20:40.968-07:00I agree: evil seems to require malevolence, that i...I agree: evil seems to require malevolence, that is, will to do harm without mercy. This goes to the question I asked IGW: do monsters have free will? Could we push the question further? What kind of creatures are monsters if they do not have free will? Iluvatar's Children (including his adopted children, the Dwarves) are defined precisely by their free will. But if monsters do not have free will, then they are evil only as tools? This fits with Tolkien's logic, but I am wondering if it works for our theory of monsters more generally, as also participating in the Unknown. RLFB"Tolkien: Medieval and Modern"https://www.blogger.com/profile/04348913969813157482noreply@blogger.com